Keri, I’m curious about the projected 460 new jobs supposedly being created here thanks to the government loan. If those jobs are to be created by the retail, grocery anchor and restaurants that will eventually move into the Town Center, that would mean that absolutely every new commercial venture moving to the Town Center would have to be completely new to the neighborhood, right? If Prescott simply relocated a couple of already-existiong neighborhood businesses from an existing neighborhood shopping center, that’s not going to create a “new job” as far as I can tell. And particularly if the grocer turned out to be Tom Thumb, no jobs would be gained in the neighborhood (and some probably would be lost) if the grocer simply relocates its two existing stores to the Town Center. I’d be interested in learning more about the jobs and how that number is calculated; maybe it’s primarily construction workers, who aren’t permanent neighborhood residents or employees?

The grand plan for the Town Center is about to go down the drain.

As a resident who lives less than 200 yards from the site, let me tell you, I’m highly disappointed in seeing a 57k grocery store.

I agree with Jared – this is terrible news.  Prescott please do better than Tom Thumb – serious YAWN.  

Also, what happened at a neighborhood public hearing?  Is this for community feedback?

This is what happens when you have a B list developer – without the deep pockets to get financing.  The Town Center will be a very dense apartment complex with a retail component that is stolen from existing LH businesses or empty.

Who really cares anymore? LH is going(gone!!!) down the drain.I wish people would put this much energy into our public school in LH(which are the lowest performing in the district..sorry WRE you’ve got nothing on Brentfield,Bowie,Prairie Creek or even Prestonwood elementary schools (so parents of WRE/Highlander School(which doesn’t come close to Lamplighter,Greenhill,St.marks,Hockaday or even Lakehill(3rd tier private,with Highlander being 4th or 5th tier)  kids stop acting soooo snobby!!!Lake Highlanders get over it you will NEVER BE LIKE HIGHLAND/UNIVERSITY PARK!!!

Hey LHORHP - you really need to work on closing out those parentheticals…

Thanks for sharing. You’ve added a lot to the discussion. Now to get back on topic.

Rick – from what I hear the requested rental rate and LHTC is prohibitive to many businesses relocating there. My guess is that if a mom-and-pop shop is doing well, they will have no interest in the LHTC. While Tom Thumb may be a poach, I don’t expect the smaller retail spaces to be.

I just hope the development can resemble it’s initial plan. To me, adding a national large grocer doesn’t kill that. I think a walkable town-center model (not a strip center) will still attract the types of tenants we all covet – namely, restaurant and specialty retail. I am just ready for some progress.

His spacing is improper as well.

I guess those HP/UP schools forgot that lesson.

My kids go to Greenhill by the way,a school you Lake Highlanders could never afford…

Well obviously your money that you seem so proud of was not able to buy you any class, tact or intelligence was it LHORHP?

If you don’t live in LH, why are you even here?

Because you Lake Highlanders constantly compare yourselves to the Park Cities,when your money comes nowhere close.Heres the ranking:
1st.HP
2nd.UP
3rd.Preston Hollow
4th.Lakewood(where I live!!!)
5th.Plano,Frisco,Coppell
6th….Maybe then Lake Highlands/Richardson(Because of the Prairie creek area)

Probably long odds but it would be great if the store is a Market Street. Kind of a cross between Tom thumb and central market. Has same large footprint as those as well.

Two questions:

1. Why do people even reply to trolls?
2. Why doesn’t someone the Advocate remove these blatant attacks?

Brian

Brian, thanks for the note. I’ve been watching this conversation, but as far as editing it, I just don’t believe it has risen to that level of offense. Yet. I agree that some of the comments are pretty off-topic, but I don’t see the level of vitriol or name-calling that seems to warrant editing. We try to police these comments to ensure people aren’t pointlessly being offensive, but there’s a fine line on that decision, and removing comments is the last thing we like to do. However, I agree that the comment string has devolved, and it’s too bad: There are a lot of relevant issues at stake with the Town Center and the now-massive government funding heading its way, and this would be a good place to air those concerns rather than some of the others being bandied about.

I have little issue with a big grocer moving in even if it is poached from another area.  Here is my logic:

1. The place has nothing so something where I can buy a loaf of bread is better then what is currently there.
2. Frankly, some of the local corner development in LH is tired and needs to be poached, razed, and converted to single family.  Exhibit A: the corner of Walnut Hill and Audelia.  The Wal Mart left and they finally cleared it and now it will be converted into single family homes which is far more productive.

I actually agree with much of your logic.  The two Tom Thumbs today are poorly maintained.  I do not shop at them unless I need to just pick up one or two things – otherwise, I drive to the Tom Thumb on Lovers Lane (across from Central Market) or to Krogers at Mockingbird and Greenville.  Both stores are more well maintained and have nicer selections of product.

Something that should be learned (to my surprise) from the Walnut Hill/Audelia single-family conversion – is that people are willing to pay $700-800K for new builds in our neighborhood.  This should open a LOT of doors for people to explore more retail-to-residential conversions (which, if you’ve followed my posts over the years, was something I didn’t think was really feasible because I didn’t think people were willing to pay 700K+ in Lake Highlands for a home – this revelation [and not just assumption, since the current conversion is already half sold] is a game changer in my mind).

Only time will tell – but wouldn’t it be interesting if someone could get the corner of Church/Skillman converted to single family?  It’s sitting empty – and the market value has had to have dropped since the recession…

Brian

A new prototype Tom Thumb at Walnut Hill and Skillman would instantly become THE destination in LH for conventional (non-Walmart) grocery shopping regardless of whether some folks are disappointed that it wasn’t a specialty grocer.  Specialty grocers only serve a slice of the population (which is okay if located in or near the Park Cities, Preston Hollow, Lakewood, etc.).  Walnut Hill/Skillman doesn’t fit the demographics for a specialty grocer.  Also, current locations of Whole Foods and Central Market adequately serve Lake Highlanders desiring that type of grocery experience.  Logic tells me that a new consolidated Tom Thumb is the likely grocer at LHTC.  Makes most sense for Safeway as well as for the demographics of LH.

I don’t know. I never hear anyone compare LH to the Park Cities. I’ve always gotten the impression that LH is less concerned with money and more concerned with family. And that is certainly not intended as a statement about HP or a comparison to HP, but rather a statement regarding the core values of the LH community (to the extent any community can have core values attributed to it).

Wanting walkable boutique retail is not about the prestige, but rather about filling a missing gap in what our community needs.

I recommend you stick to your Lakewood boards, as you clearly know very little about my community of LH.

That would be great, but I haven’t heard their name tossed around. Odd that they haven’t made their way in from the suburbs too.

Not to create a whole new discussion or debate on the desirability of pockets of LH, but I’m not sure that every neighborhood (or many for that matter) in LH could sell $700k + homes. The neighborhoods serving WRE seem to have been given a premium. (And no, I don’t live there).

LH since 1981 has it nailed. A specialty grocer would be something to brag about, but I doubt it would get enough sustainable business. We don’t have a grocery store in LH that compares to the Kroger at Mockingbird and Greenville or the Tom Thumbs at Greenville and Lovers and across from NorthPark. As far as I’m concerned the Tom Thumb at Skillman/Royal is a lost cause anyway. Other than the new Moon Wok, most of the businesses in that shopping center no longer cater to my demographic.

I never hear anyone in LH compare themselves to Highland Park, either. A lot of us work, play, shop and go to church with people from the Park Cities. And believe it or not, I have neighbors who grew up in HP and now live in LH. Somehow, they suffer through.

Chris, I agree with your logic in terms of addressing “tired” LH retail corners. My concern, and maybe it’s only me concerned, is that the Town Center — with the millions in TIF money and likely HUD loan — is being significantly subsidized with government benefits to the extent that it could force some retail corners out of business. If having wads of government money allows the Town Center to reduce its rental rates below normal cost of new construction, allowing it to poach retailers from elsewhere in the neighborhood, causing individual owners of those retail corners to lose money, is that a fair and justifiable use of the government benefits? Are we ultimately using taxpayer subsidized dollars to compete with private ownership (kind of like with the Downtown Convention Center hotel)? Is that an OK use of government involvement? Or maybe I’m the only one concerned?

You should try Zato if you haven’t. It’s very good.

That is a good point.  Two run-down Tom Thumbs are not doing us any good. Maybe a Sprouts could move in at Skillman/Abrams if TT moves out? That would make me happy.  Are any of the local Sprouts new construction?  They seem to like rehabing old grocery anchors.

I don’t know if you consider it local, but I know of at least one new construction Sprouts in Keller. I would think they are open to either model. However, they’d need to split the TT space to attract a Sprouts. They certainly aren’t afraid of a “transitional” location, given their store on Forest (at either Midway or Marsh).

I’d think Sunflower might consider a second location in town too.

I’m not sure I understand the logic of those who welcome a Tom Thumb, and let’s close the other 2 near-by.  I guess my reasoning is, Tom Thumb hasn’t shown us they will keep-up a store in this general area.  They’ve had two chances to show us if they’re a good tenant, and I’d say they’re not, at either Skillman/Abrams or Skillman/Royal.  Why should I believe the LHTC store will be a shining example of good retail from Tom Thumb?  They had a good store, the Simon David at Skillman/Abrams, and just let that go way downhill.

I’m not opposed to the idea of a big chain grocer there, just not Tom Thumb.  Let’s get an H-E-B in there and see if the competition would cause Tom Thumb to improve their two stores, or fold up their tent.

 Rick: You are absolutely correct in your thinking. What is so special about this project that we are allowing public funds to support it to a level that may become detrimental to competing retail? And will these public funds ensure a larger mix of low income housing in this project? I have a hard time believing that HUD will fund a parking garage without a trade-off; and if so, they have no business doing this. Make the project work with the initial TIF investment and I am fine; the additional TIF funding and the HUD loan take this over the top. What is Councilman Allen thinking??

Wilson, I totally agree with you. Both Tom Thumbs are pretty bad and I avoid them at all costs. It is obvious to me that Prescott is desperate at this point and will take any tenant that will help pay the bills. Seriously who would want to rent or buy a place to live next to a Tom Thumb? I think it takes “buy” completely off the table which leaves us with a brand new bunch of apartments. Ick.

For what it’s worth, I live in Lake Higlands and my 4th grader is at Greenhill, too (yes, somehow we afford it, even some of us lowly LH families).  I am surprised that with your obvious sense of elitism and exclusion you would choose  to enroll your kids (and that Greenhill would accept your family) at a school whose core values are grounded in diversity and inclusion.  Those core values are a great fit for the LH community culture by the way and are a key reason we chose this neighborhood.

To all of the relevant contributors to this thread, my apologies for furthering the diversion created by a troll.

I think a specialty grocer, especially one like Sprouts, would easily garner enough business.  3 points:

1)  LH culture seems to be a good fit for the organic and local produce movement, probably better than other more expensive neighborhoods.

2)  How many of us already shop (a pretty inconvenient) Central Market or Whole Foods today?  I see a lot of LH people at CM regularly.

3)  LHTC demographics are at least as good as the Forest/Marsh area where Sprouts is currently operating (presumably at a profit).  I suspect LHTC rent would be higher than Forest/Marsh, but this is not a “demand” problem.

The plan has always been for rentals next to the retail. The single family units would be on the other side of Walnut Hill, next to the DART station.

Actually, if you look at the original plans, the zero-lot-line homes were always planned to be on the South side of this first phase of rentals + retail – it’s the southern most portion of the property that butts up against the condos in the next property…

What is our guarantee that the new apartments being built at the Town Center are not going to turn into the ghetto like apartments that we already have at the Brookshire and those on Forest?  I think it is ridiculous that Trader Joes would choose an area that already has plenty of choices and little parking!  I am so sick of LH being considered unable to support business.  Another Tom Thumb at the expense of the existing stores not only leaves empty spaces that must be filled, but generates no excitement for the Town Center.  Something has to be done….obviously more than the petition drive that so many expended a great deal of energy on.  It was incredible to see the excitement that just the prospect of a Trader Joe’s brought to our neighborhood.  I feel like Prescott has not worked hard for our neighborhood. I may be mistaken, but I really think if Casa Linda can have shopping and restaurants, then we can do much better!  We are not a depressed area, but we are certainly being treated as one!

Sorry to break it to you bud,but LH is “GHETTO”

Sorry you feel that way.  Obviously, you have lived a pretty sheltered life if you think LH is ghetto.  BTW….I’m not your BUD

yeah driving down Whitehurst is just like freakin Beverly Hills!!

Di, please don’t feed the trolls…